How West Virginia's first transgender elected official is influencing local politics

WHEELING, W.Va. (AP) — When Rosemary Ketchum gets introduced as the first openly transgender person to win elective office in West Virginia, there's often a shocked look that comes across people's faces.

“Folks will be like, ‘How did that happen?’ As if it's like I won the lottery or solved a Rubik's Cube in front of them or something,” she said. "They think it’s magic."

To her, it doesn't feel like magic. But in some ways, she can understand their surprise. Out of the handful of transgender officials in the U.S., only a few were elected in similarly rural, GOP-controlled states.

Ketchum, 29, is one of them. And next week, she could be elected again — this time as mayor of Wheeling, a former coal and steel production hub that's about 60 miles (97 kilometers) outside Pittsburgh.

Growing up, she said she saw businesses shutter, and people struggle to find housing and mental health support amid the opioid epidemic. Her spirit is optimistic though, and she often comes back to a memory of first encountering "the friendly city” motto of Wheeling on a welcome sign.

“I didn’t run for city council to make history — I ran to make a difference in my community," she said, of her motivation to run.

Wheeling is a city of 26,000 residents with a unique place in West Virginia history. It's nestled in the foothills of the Appalachian Mountains, along the Ohio River in an area that split from Virginia and the Confederacy in 1863.

More than a century later, a group portrait hangs in Wheeling’s city hall. Ketchum is impossible to miss: Standing next to seven men in suits, she is wearing a red dress and black heels, and has platinum blonde hair. She stands out in meetings too, with her painted-red nails and laptop adorned with a Taylor Swift sticker.

At a recent council meeting, she asked questions about pending water and sewer projects, thanked city employees for their work and urged residents exposed to recent flooding to get tetanus shots at the local health department.

For Ketchum, going to college — let alone working in politics — was not in the cards.

When she was in high school, a tragic house fire leveled the family's home and rendered the family homeless. They didn’t have home insurance or savings, and had to move temporarily into a neighbor's basement.

“We didn't have a backup plan,” she said. "And unfortunately, a lot of blue-collar families are in that same boat.”

After the fire, Ketchum arrived in Wheeling as a 16-year-old in the midst of a gender transition. The family received food stamps, and Ketchum worked as a bartender after high school. She later became the first in her family to graduate college — and credits being able to live in public housing for enabling her to do so.

She later served as associate director of the city's local National Alliance on Mental Illness chapter — a job that combined with her lived experience to shape the way she approaches public policy.

In 2023, Ketchum was one of only two city officials to vote against an ordinance designed to clear homeless encampments. She helped establish the city's first internal position focused on homelessness — to aid people in finding mental health support, permanent housing and employment.

Ketchum answers matter-of-factly when people ask her how she got elected as an openly transgender candidate: she put her name on the ballot, knocked on doors, made phone calls to ask residents what they care about, and then trusted them to make a decision.

“I didn’t pre-ordain or assume what they would think of me — I gave them the opportunity to think for themselves,” she said. “I didn’t walk up to a door, and say like, ‘Oh, this person has a Trump sign, they’re going to hate me.’”

Wheeling is the seat of Ohio County, where 38% of voters registered as Republicans in 2023, compared with 34% registered Democrats, according to state data. City council positions are nonpartisan.

Ketchum has some constituents who have either never met a transgender person before — or the idea of gender nonconformity makes them uncomfortable. But she sees that as a test of leadership and motivation to work harder to address the community's concerns, ranging from accessible public transit to support for small businesses.

“I think it’s fascinating that somebody might say, ’You know what, those trans people on television, on the internet — I don’t know about that, but I have to say that a trans person helped me pave my road or fill my pothole or trim the tree in my front yard or fix my sidewalk,'" she said.

Kellie Ahmad, a local artist and volunteer on Ketchum's campaign, said she greatly respects how Ketchum handles her detractors.

“She even has people who are vitriolically hateful towards her calling her and saying, ‘There’s a lot near me that needs to be mowed — can you get that done?’" Ahmad said. “Which just goes to show, ‘I might fundamentally disagree with who you are as a person, but you’re effective.'”

Dianne Ketchum, Rosemary’s mother, said it wasn’t easy to see Ketchum enter the world of politics. She had seen how as a child, her daughter was bullied because of her gender identity.

But the world has changed since that time, and perceptions of transgender people in the region are starting to shift. People like Ketchum are a big part of that, Dianne Ketchum said, noting she's seen people speaking about transgender people with more tolerance and understanding since her daughter took office.

“A lot of people have changed their minds because they met my daughter,” Dianne Ketchum said.

During the COVID-19 pandemic, the council made Wheeling the only city in West Virginia to declare racism a public health crisis. Then they banned conversion therapy, a powerful if symbolic move.

Ketchum said when she’s canvassing, people aren’t talking about what bathrooms they think transgender people should be able to use, or whether kids should be reading books with LGBTQ+ characters in school. People often want to talk about repaving their road or worries about how many young people are leaving the state — one of only two states where the population declined in the 2020 census.

“That gives me more respect, frankly, for my neighbors,” Ketchum said. GOP lawmakers’ focus on books bans and bathroom access may attract attention statewide and nationally, but “it doesn’t work at a local level -- it doesn’t register,” she said.

She said many people have developed an apathy or distrust of government. But she doesn't engage with cynicism. Instead, she gives constituents her personal phone number and holds regular office hours at a local market where anyone can come by to speak with her.

Ketchum talks about making streets safer for pedestrians, revitalizing the downtown area, and navigating the delicate balance between preserving and restoring the ornate but blighted structures throughout the city. She beams with pride when sharing progress on the rehabilitation of a historic suspension bridge — one leading to a city island where she worked at a family-owned bar.

“Sometimes, we call it ‘the friendly city’ and that seems like an aspiration because we’re dealing with so much tension and there’s a generational divide in some way — particularly in politics,” she said. “But I see it here every day. We're getting somewhere.”

Transgender Mayoral candidate Rosemary Ketchum (right) speaks with registered voter Spencer Bell (left) while canvassing on Friday, April 5, 2024, in Wheeling, W.Va. (AP Photo/Kathleen Batten)

Transgender Mayoral candidate Rosemary Ketchum (right) speaks with registered voter Michele McClintock (left) while canvassing on Friday, April 5, 2024, in Wheeling, W.Va. (AP Photo/Kathleen Batten)

Transgender Mayoral candidate Rosemary Ketchum prepares to canvass local voters on Friday, April 5, 2024, in Wheeling, W.Va. (AP Photo/Kathleen Batten)

Transgender Mayoral candidate Rosemary Ketchum participates in a City Council meeting on Friday, April 5, 2024, in Wheeling, W.Va. (AP Photo/Kathleen Batten)

Transgender Mayoral candidate Rosemary Ketchum speaks during a City Council meeting On Friday, April 5, 2024, in Wheeling, W.Va. (AP Photo/Kathleen Batten)

Transgender Mayoral candidate Rosemary Ketchum (right) listens to City Council member Ben Seidler (left) speak during a City Council meeting On Friday, April 5, 2024, in Wheeling, W.Va. (AP Photo/Kathleen Batten)

Transgender Mayoral candidate Rosemary Ketchum (right) speaks with City Council member Ben Seidler (left) during a City Council meeting On Friday, April 5, 2024, in Wheeling, W.Va. (AP Photo/Kathleen Batten)

Jessica Zalenski, Ben Seidler, Transgender Mayoral candidate Rosemary Ketchum, and Jerry Sklavounakis participate in a City Council meeting On Friday, April 5, 2024, in Wheeling, W.Va. (AP Photo/Kathleen Batten)

Transgender Mayoral candidate Rosemary Ketchum participates in a City Council meeting On Friday, April 5, 2024, in Wheeling, W.Va. (AP Photo/Kathleen Batten)

Transgender Mayoral candidate Rosemary Ketchum participates in a City Council meeting on Friday, April 5, 2024, in Wheeling, W.Va. (AP Photo/Kathleen Batten)

Transgender Mayoral candidate Rosemary Ketchum stands on a closed down bridge in Wheeling Island on Friday, April 5, 2024, in Wheeling, W.Va. (AP Photo/Kathleen Batten)

NEW YORK (AP) — Donald Trump's hush money trial entered its final stretch with the prosecution resting its case late Monday afternoon following the conclusion of star witness Michael Cohen 's testimony.

Cohen concluded his testimony after nearly four full days on the witness stand. He looked in Trump’s direction as he walked out of the courtroom before a court officer directed him down the aisle.

In his testimony, Cohen placed the former president directly at the center of the alleged scheme to stifle negative stories to fend off damage to his White House bid. Among other things, Cohen told jurors that Trump promised to reimburse him for the money he fronted and was constantly updated about efforts to silence women who alleged sexual encounters with him. Trump denies the women’s claims.

Defense attorneys had resumed cross-examination of Cohen with a series of questions about his business dealings and other activities in the lead-up to the payment to porn actor Stormy Daniels. They further dug into Cohen's sources of income in the years since Trump originally took office.

The defense is now expected to call its witnesses, including attorney Robert Costello.

It remains unclear whether Trump will testify.

Merchan said earlier in the day that closing arguments could take place the Tuesday after Memorial Day.

The trial is in its 19th day.

Trump has pleaded not guilty to 34 felony counts of falsifying business records.

The case is the first-ever criminal trial of a former U.S. president and the first of four prosecutions of Trump to reach a jury.

Currently:

— What we’ve learned so far in the Trump hush money trial and what to watch for as it wraps up

— Trump receives NRA endorsement as he vows to protect gun rights

— Trump hush money case: A timeline of key events

— Key players: Who’s who at Trump’s hush money criminal trial

— Hush money, catch and kill and more: A guide to unique terms used at Trump’s trial

Here's the latest:

Judge Juan M. Merchan on Monday afternoon briefly closed the courtroom where Donald Trump's criminal trial is being held, forcing reporters into the hallway after he admonished witness Robert Costello for his behavior.

Costello aggravated Merchan repeatedly in his testimony by making comments under his breath and continuing to speak after objections were sustained — a signal to witnesses to stop talking.

At one point, frustrated as he was again cut off by a sustained objection, Costello remarked, “Jeez.”

“I’m sorry? I’m sorry?” a peeved Merchan asked.

“Strike it, I’m —.” Costello replied, cutting himself off.

At another point, he called the whole exercise, “ridiculous.”

After excusing the jury, Merchan told the witness: “Mr. Costello, I want to discuss proper decorum in my courtroom. When there’s a witness on the stand, if you don’t like my ruling, you don’t say ‘jeez’… You don’t give me side eye and you don’t roll your eyes.”

“Are you staring me down right now? Clear the courtroom, right now. Clear the courtroom,” the judge said.

For several minutes, there were no reporters in the courtroom or video access to the proceedings in the overflow room.

Jurors and reporters returned a short time later.

Robert Costello testified on Monday that in a meeting shortly after federal authorities searched Michael Cohen’s home, office and hotel room in April 2018, a “manic” Cohen asked about an “escape route” from his legal problems.

“He kept on pacing back and forth, left and right,” Costello said. “He said ‘My life is shattered, my family’s life is shattered. I don’t know what’s going to happen.’”

Costello said he told Cohen the matter could be resolved quickly “if he had truthful information about Donald Trump and he cooperated.”

“I swear to God, Bob, I don’t have anything on Donald Trump,” Cohen replied, according to Costello.

Costello added that Cohen had lamented to him, “I don’t understand why they’re trying to put me in jail” over nondisclosure agreements, and disclosed that he’d arranged one with Stormy Daniels.

But, Costello said, Cohen told him Trump “knew nothing” about the hush money paid to the porn actor.

“Michael Cohen said numerous times that President Trump knew nothing about those payments, that he did this on his own, and he repeated that numerous times,” Costello testified.

Robert Costello, a former federal prosecutor in New York, is relevant to Donald Trump's hush money case due to his role as a Michael Cohen antagonist and critic in the years since their professional relationship splintered.

Costello had offered to represent Cohen soon after the lawyer’s hotel room, office and home were raided by the FBI in 2018 and as he faced a decision about whether to remain defiant in the face of a criminal investigation or to cooperate with investigators in hopes of securing more lenient treatment.

During Cohen’s testimony last week, prosecutors presented correspondence showing that Costello boasted about his closeness at the time with Trump ally Rudy Giuliani — a relationship he suggested could be beneficial to Cohen — and reassured him that he was “loved” inside the White House. In presenting those messages to the jury, prosecutors hoped to prove that Costello’s outreach was designed to keep Cohen in the Trump fold and to discourage him from flipping on Trump.

But Cohen ultimately did exactly that, pleading guilty to federal crimes and implicating Trump. Costello in the years since has repeatedly maligned Cohen’s credibility and was even a witness before last year’s grand jury that indicted Trump, offering testimony designed to undermine his account.

Attorney Robert Costello was called to the witness stand in Donald Trump's hush money trial Monday afternoon.

Before he took the stand, Judge Juan M. Merchan ruled that he would allow the defense to question him about two allegedly inconsistent statements in Michael Cohen’s testimony and to “offer some rebuttal” to his testimony.

But, Merchan said, he won't allow the questioning to become a “trial within a trial” as to whether there was a pressure campaign and how it affected Cohen.

The judge said he would give Trump lawyer Emil Bove “some latitude to explore the pressure campaign so you can explore some inconsistencies.”

With jurors out of the room Monday afternoon, lawyers for both sides in Donald Trump's hush money trial argued about what — if anything — the defense should be allowed to ask witness Robert Costello about.

Prosecutor Susan Hoffinger contended that Costello shouldn’t be allowed to testify, but if he is, he shouldn’t be allowed to offer his opinions on Michael Cohen’s credibility. Trump attorney Emil Bove countered that he is being called to rebut the prosecutors’ suggestion that Costello was part of a supposed Trump-engineered pressure campaign to keep Cohen in the fold.

Just before the break, Bove said Costello would offer “direct evidence of perjury at this trial” by Cohen, suggesting that Cohen lied in testifying that he didn’t have even a retainer to hire Costello. “Part of what Costello is going to do is to testify that some of what Cohen said is false,” Bove said.

Costello was called to testify after the first defense witness, paralegal Daniel Sitko, who only briefly took the stand.

The prosecution in Donald Trump's hush money trial rested its case shortly after 3 p.m. Monday following the conclusion of Michael Cohen's testimony.

Cohen concluded his testimony after nearly four full days on the witness stand. He looked in Trump’s direction as he walked out of the courtroom before a court officer directed him down the aisle.

After Cohen left the room, Assistant District Attorney Joshua Steinglass told Judge Juan M. Merchan: “Your honor, the people rest.”

Back on the witness stand Monday afternoon, Michael Cohen testified that he has “no doubt” that Donald Trump gave him a final sign-off to make the hush money payment to Stormy Daniels. In total, he said he spoke with Trump more than 20 times about the matter in October 2016. Some conversations were brief, while others were longer, he said, adding that they happened both by phone and in person.

Prosecutors appear to be eliciting testimony from Cohen aimed at diminishing the importance of a single phone call, which defense attorneys contend was not about the Daniels payments, but about a teenage prank caller who had been harassing Cohen.

After initially objecting, Donald Trump’s lawyers have agreed to let prosecutors show the jury in his hush money trial a still image taken from a C-SPAN video of Trump and his bodyguard Keith Schiller together at a campaign event at 7:57 p.m. on Oct. 24, 2016.

Trump lawyer Todd Blanche said he agreed to what’s known as a stipulation, allowing prosecutors to introduce the image without the need for extra steps — such as summoning a C-SPAN representative back to the witness stand to authenticate the image.

The defense made the compromise after prosecutors said they would seek to have the C-SPAN representative testify Tuesday morning, likely after the prosecution rests its case and the defense starts calling witnesses.

Blanche conferred with prosecutor Joshua Steinglass and reached the deal during a short break in the trial after conferring with Trump and other members of his defense team about how to proceed.

The judge in the case previously ruled against showing the image on grounds that the photo would amount to hearsay without being authenticated by a representative of the TV network.

Trump lawyer Todd Blanche on Monday objected to having a C-SPAN representative return to court after prosecutors floated it in their request to show a screenshot of an October 2016 video from the network.

Blanche argued that doing so will unnecessarily prolong Donald Trump's hush money trial. He added that prosecutors are on the verge of resting their case and that the defense may rest its case Monday, too.

The defense plans to call a campaign finance expert, a lawyer who offered to represent Cohen after the FBI raided his property in 2018, and a paralegal.

Prosecutor Joshua Steinglass said he hopes to have Robert Browning, the executive director of the C-SPAN archives, back on the witness stand on Tuesday.

Chuck Zito, the former president of the Hells Angels' New York chapter, was among those in court Monday to support Donald Trump during his hush money trial.

Zito, who helped found the biker club’s local branch in the 1980s before setting his sights on Hollywood, was part of Trump’s entourage Monday, and was sitting in the back row of the courtroom before lunch.

Also known for his role as “Chucky The Enforcer” on the HBO prison drama “Oz,” Zito served real prison time on a drug charge in the late ’80s and early ’90s.

He’s not the only Trump ally in the courtroom who was previously convicted of a criminal charge: Bernard Kerik served three years behind bars after pleading guilty to federal tax fraud and other charges before his release in 2013. Trump pardoned him in 2020.

Before the jury returned from the lunch break, Judge Juan M. Merchan ruled that prosecutors can’t show the jury screenshots of a C-SPAN video of Donald Trump and his bodyguard Keith Schiller together at a campaign event the evening of Oct. 24, 2016 — about five minutes before Michael Cohen called Schiller’s cell phone.

The judge said the photo amounts to hearsay without being authenticated by a representative of the TV network. Assistant District Attorney Joshua Steinglass said prosecutors are arranging to have the executive director of the C-SPAN archives, Robert Browning, return to the witness stand. Browning testified earlier in the trial to authenticate videos of Trump campaign speeches in 2016.

Steinglass had said they wanted to show the image to blunt any suggestion by the defense that Trump and Schiller might not have been together at the time in question.

During a bench conference before the resumption of testimony in Donald Trump's hush money trial, defense lawyers said they would call attorney Robert Costello to the witness stand during their defense case.

In addition to Costello, defense lawyer Todd Blanche said potentially they would also call Bradley A. Smith and a paralegal.

Costello, whose well-publicized split from Michael Cohen was chronicled in testimony last week, was invited last year to appear before the grand jury that indicted Trump after asserting that he had information that undermined Cohen’s credibility.

In a news conference after his grand jury appearance, he told reporters that he came forward to provide exculpatory information about Trump and to make clear that he did not believe Cohen — who pleaded guilty to federal crimes and served time in prison — could be trusted.

The move to call Costello is risky for the defense because it could open the door to additional testimony about what Cohen alleged was a strong-armed effort by the lawyer to keep him in line during the federal hush money investigation and to deter Cohen from cooperating with prosecutors after his home, office and hotel room were raided by the FBI in 2018.

After the jury was excused for lunch on Monday, prosecutors said they’re seeking to show them a screenshot from a C-SPAN video of Donald Trump and his bodyguard Keith Schiller together at a campaign event on Oct. 24, 2016, just minutes before Cohen called Schiller’s cell phone.

Prosecutor Joshua Steinglass told Judge Juan M. Merchan they wanted to show the image to blunt any suggestion by the defense that Trump and Schiller might not have been together at the time in question. Trump lawyer Todd Blanche said he never suggested, nor would he suggest, they were apart.

Cohen previously testified that he needed to speak with Trump “to discuss the Stormy Daniels matter and the resolution of it” and he knew that Schiller would be with him. Cohen wired $130,000 to Daniels’ lawyer two days after the call in question.

Citing text messages and telephone records, Blanche pressed Cohen last week on the subject matter of the call, eliciting testimony that the witness was also dealing with harassing phone calls from a person who’d identified himself as a 14-year-old boy.

Donald Trump’s entourage of political supporters spoke to news reporters Monday in the park across from the Manhattan courthouse where his criminal trial is currently taking place.

The group sought to attack the case, the judge, the judge’s daughter and President Joe Biden.

South Carolina Attorney General Alan Wilson said Michael Cohen — who is currently on the witness stand — lied to Congress, the media and the court.

“You’d have trouble finding a single person he has actually told the truth to,” Wilson said.

Kash Patel, who served in Trump’s administration, said that Monday’s proceedings marked the first time in six weeks of trial that “we finally have a crime,” because Cohen admitted to stealing money from the Trump Organization.

“We also have a victim. That victim is Donald J. Trump,” Patel said.

U.S. Rep. Andrew Clyde of Georgia called for the U.S. government to withhold any federal money from being used in New York’s court system and Illinois Rep. Mary Miller said “any normal judge would have dismissed this case by now.”

As she questioned Michael Cohen again on redirect, prosecutor Susan Hoffinger took a dig at the defense’s exacting cross-examination of him during Donald Trump's hush money trial.

“I know you might feel like you’re on trial here after cross-examination, but are you actually on trial here?,” she asked.

“No, ma’am,” Cohen replied after a defense objection was overruled.

Asked to describe the difference between testifying in court against Trump and the 2018 federal case in which he pleaded guilty to various crimes, Cohen said: “My life was on the line. My liberty. I was the defendant in that case. Here, I’m just a non-party subpoenaed witness.”

Michael Cohen’s admitted theft from the Trump Organization came after his annual holiday bonus was slashed to $50,000 from the $150,000 he usually received, he testified on Monday.

Cohen said that Donald Trump owed technology firm Red Finch $50,000 for its work artificially boosting his standing in a CNBC online poll about famous businessmen.

Cohen said he’d paid the company’s owner $20,000 in cash “to placate him for the time being” after Trump had gone months without paying the bill.

Cohen said he later sought reimbursement for the full amount at the same time he was seeking payment for the money he paid Stormy Daniels. He said he kept the difference instead of paying Red Finch as a way of making up for his reduced bonus.

“I was angered because of the reduction in the bonus and so I just felt like it was self-help,” Cohen said.

Michael Cohen testified on Monday that he shelled out money to a tech firm to help boost Donald Trump’s performance in an online CNBC poll about the most famous businessmen of the last half-century.

At first, Trump was polling near the bottom “and it upset him,” Cohen said during redirect. So Cohen reached out to Red Finch, who said they could create an algorithm that would get Trump’s name “to rise and rise significantly” in the poll by acquiring IP addresses to cast phony votes.

He said Trump initially wanted to finish first, but the two decided that would be suspicious. Instead, they decided to settle for ninth. But Trump refused to pay the firm after CNBC decided to nix a second round of the poll featuring the top 10 names. Trump, Cohen testified, didn’t feel he’d gotten his money’s worth.

When he was later reimbursed by Allen Weisselberg to pay back Red Finch, Cohen kept the proceeds for himself — an act of deception that, Cohen admitted earlier in the day, amounted to stealing from the Trump Organization.

But describing his actions to the prosecutor, Cohen defended the move. “I felt it was almost like self-help,” he said.

As prosecutor Susan Hoffinger began questioning Michael Cohen during redirect on Monday, she took aim at a point that Donald Trump’s defense made during their questioning: that Cohen helped Trump and his family with some legal matters in 2017, when Cohen received $420,000 from the then-president.

The sum included reimbursement for the $130,000 that Cohen had paid Stormy Daniels, according to testimony and evidence at the hush money trial.

Prosecutors say the $420,000 in payments was deceptively logged as legal expenses to disguise the Daniels deal. Trump’s defense says Cohen was indeed paid for legal work, so there was no cover-up.

Cohen testified that he never billed for the work he did for Trump and his family in 2017. When Hoffinger asked whether the $420,000 was related at all to those 2017 legal endeavors, Cohen answered, “No, ma’am.”

The defense's cross-examination of Michael Cohen in Donald Trump's hush money trial ended with Cohen reiterating that he discussed the Stormy Daniels deal with the former president.

“Notwithstanding everything you’ve said over the years, you have specific recollection of having conversations with then-candidate Donald J. Trump about the Stormy Daniels matter?” defense lawyer Todd Blanche asked.

“Yes, sir,” Cohen answered.

“No doubt in your mind?”

No doubt, Cohen averred, and Blanche said he had no more questions.

Pushed before the morning break in Donald Trump's hush money case to describe his lucrative Trump-related side businesses, Michael Cohen told defense attorney Todd Blanche “there is a television show” in the works.

Tentatively titled “The Fixer,” the show is based on Cohen’s own life and career. A producer on his podcast is currently shopping the show to studios, but it hasn’t been picked up yet, Cohen testified.

Later asked about his recent claim that he might run for Congress because he has “the best name recognition out there,” Cohen insisted he hasn’t built his profile on Trump’s back.

“My name recognition is because of the journey that I’ve been on. Is it affiliated to Mr. Trump? Yes. Not because of Mr. Trump,” he testified.

“Well, the journey that you’ve been on,” Blanche noted, “has included near-daily attacks on President Trump.”

“My journey is to tell my story, yes, sir,” Cohen said, eventually acknowledging his frequent criticisms of Trump.

Cohen also testified he’d be better off financially if Trump isn’t convicted because it would give him more fodder for the podcasts that provide a sizeable chunk of his livelihood.

Cohen was responding to questions asking if he’d benefit financially from a conviction in the hush money case.

As he spoke, Trump looked directly at the witness box, his arm draped over his chair.

Before a morning break in Donald Trump's criminal trial, defense lawyer Todd Blanche probed Michael Cohen’s profitable new career as a media-forward Trump critic.

The ex-lawyer said he’s made about $4.4 million from his books and podcasts since 2020, the year he was released from prison to home confinement. He was freed from home confinement in 2021.

Cohen also noted that he makes some income from a real estate rental property.

Before pleading guilty in 2018 to campaign finance violations and other charges, Cohen made about $4 million in 18 months, he testified. That money came largely from corporate consulting deals, plus the $420,000 he got from Trump to reimburse the Stormy Daniels payout and a technology expense, cover taxes and provide a bonus.

Jurors in Donald Trump's hush money trial remained largely engaged with Michael Cohen’s testimony on Monday, though some appeared to be dragging as his testimony stretched into a fourth day.

Several jurors stifled yawns while peering at the witness and looking at monitors in front of them as emails and other evidence were displayed. A few continued to take notes. Others sat back and took in the testimony, occasionally peering at the gallery of reporters and public observers.

American lawyer Alan Dershowitz returns to the courtroom for the criminal trial of former President Donald Trump after a short break at the municipal criminal court in Monday May 20, 2024 in New York. (Sarah Yenesel/Pool Photo via AP)

American actor Chuck Zito returns to the courtroom for the criminal trial of former President Donald Trump after a short break at the municipal criminal court in Monday May 20, 2024 in New York. (Sarah Yenesel/Pool Photo via AP)

Former President Donald Trump walks with attorney Todd Blanche after a break during his trial at Manhattan Criminal Court on Monday, May 20, 2024 in New York. (Michael M. Santiago/Pool Photo via AP)

Former President Donald Trump speaks to members of the media before entering the courtroom with his attorney Todd Blanche at Manhattan Criminal Court on Monday, May 20, 2024 in New York. (Michael M. Santiago/Pool Photo via AP)

Former President Donald Trump sits in Manhattan Criminal Court on Monday, May 20, 2024 in New York. (Michael M. Santiago/Pool Photo via AP)

Former President Donald Trump appears at Manhattan Criminal Court on Monday, May 20, 2024 in New York. (Michael M. Santiago/Pool Photo via AP)

Michael Cohen leaves his apartment building on his way to Manhattan criminal court in New York, Monday, May 20, 2024. (AP Photo/Seth Wenig)

Michael Cohen leaves his apartment building on his way to Manhattan criminal court in New York, Monday, May 20, 2024. (AP Photo/Seth Wenig)

Former President Donald Trump closes his eyes, during his trial at Manhattan criminal court Thursday, May 16, 2024, in New York. (Mike Segar/Pool Photo via AP)

Former President Donald Trump, center, walks by Rep. Matt Gaetz, left, R-Fla., outside the courtroom after the day's proceedings in his trial Thursday, May 16, 2024, in New York. Trump's adviser Boris Epshteyn, and attorney Emil Bove, right, follow behind him. (Mike Segar/Pool Photo via AP)

FILE - Michael Cohen leaves his apartment building on his way to Manhattan criminal court, May 13, 2024, in New York. Donald Trump's hush money trial is heading into the final stretch. The landmark trial will kick back off Monday, May 20, in Manhattan with more defense cross-examination of former Trump attorney Cohen. Cohen's pivotal testimony directly tied Trump to the alleged hush money scheme. Defense lawyers are trying to paint Cohen as a serial fabulist who is on a revenge campaign against the presumptive Republican presidential nominee. (AP Photo/Julia Nikhinson, File)

Former President Donald Trump walks over to addresses reporters following the day's proceedings in his trial at Manhattan criminal court in New York, Thursday, May 16, 2024. (Steven Hirsch/New York Post via AP, Pool)