LONDON (AP) — The former head of Britain's Post Office Paula Vennells broke down in tears on several occasions as she gave evidence Wednesday to an inquiry into one of the country’s biggest miscarriages of justice that saw hundreds of branch managers wrongly convicted of theft or fraud because of a faulty computer system.
Vennells, who earlier this year gave back her Commander of the Order of the British Empire title that she received in 2019, admitted that she had “made mistakes” but denied there was a conspiracy to cover up the scandal.
“I have no sense that there was any conspiracy at all,” she said. “My deep sorrow in this is that I think that individuals, myself included, made mistakes, they didn’t see things and hear things.”
After the Post Office introduced the Horizon information technology system 25 years ago to automate sales accounting, local managers began finding unexplained losses that bosses said they were responsible for covering.
The Post Office maintained that Horizon, which was made by the Japanese company Fujitsu, was reliable and accused branch managers of dishonesty. Vennells, who was chief executive from 2012 to 2019, a period that included the last few years of the scandal, had for years insisted that the system was “robust” despite the hundreds of workers who said they had done nothing wrong.
Between 2000 and 2014, more than 900 postal employees were wrongly convicted of theft, fraud and false accounting, with some imprisoned and others forced into bankruptcy.
The number of victims is not fully known. The British government has introduced legislation to reverse the convictions, brought by the Post Office itself.
The company, which is state-owned but operates as a private business, has a unique function whereby it can prosecute its own staff without the need to contact police or state prosecutors. However, current executives said they couldn't imagine using it again given what happened.
“I did probe and I did ask questions, and I’m disappointed where information wasn’t shared, and it has been a very important time for me to plug some of those gaps," she said in her first public remarks about her role in the scandal for nearly a decade.
The inquiry's chief counsel, Jason Beer, pondered whether Vennells was perhaps the “unluckiest CEO in the United Kingdom.”
Vennells, who insisted she was unaware of bugs in the Horizon system, is due to testify for three days."
“One of my reflections of all of this – I was too trusting," she said.
When she was grilled about postmaster Martin Griffiths, who deliberately stepped in front of an oncoming bus in September 2013 and died weeks later, after he had been falsely accused of taking thousands of pounds from his branch, she broke down.
She also stopped mid-answer for a tissue when she was asked why she had told lawmakers in Parliament that the Post Office had been successful in every case against branch managers.
Vennells, 65, is also an ordained priest, apologized for her comment that subpostmasters and subpostmistresses had been “tempted to put their hands in the till” and said it was an “assumption” she made.
Questioned on whether she put the needs of the business over the suffering of subpostmasters, Vennells admitted there “will be many examples of where that is clearly the case."
While Vennels was CEO, a group of postal workers took legal action against the Post Office in 2016. Three years later, the High Court in London ruled that Horizon contained a number of “bugs, errors and defects” and that the Post Office “knew there were serious issues about the reliability” of the system, including that employees at Fujitsu could remotely access the ledgers of branch managers.
Vennells opened her testimony with an apology to the victims, many of whom were present.
“I actually felt emotional for her because she is up there and she has got all these eyes there that are just full of hatred towards her and that must be such an overwhelming, horrible, intense feeling,” said former branch manager Janet Skinner, who was sentenced to nine months in prison in 2007 for false accounting.
“Everybody has chucked mud at her, it’s time for her to open up and be quite open and honest about who was at the forefront of it all,” she added.
The moment of reckoning was a long time in the making, but it was turbocharged by a four-part television docudrama that aired earlier this year.
The ITV show, “Mr. Bates vs the Post Office,” told the story of branch manager Alan Bates, played by Toby Jones, who has spent nearly two decades trying to expose the scandal and exonerate his peers. Vennells was portrayed by Lia Williams.
Despite hundreds of news stories over the years about court hearings and the continuing public inquiry, the show seen by millions rapidly galvanized support for victims of the injustice.
Bates said outside the inquiry that he had "no sympathy” for Vennells.
“The whole thing is upsetting for everybody, including for so many of the victims," he said. “I’ve got no sympathy really.”
Asked if he thinks she is genuinely sorry, he added: “I wonder about these apologies, these are just words.”
The inquiry report is expected to be published next year.
Screen grab taken from the Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry of former Post Office boss Paula Vennells becoming tearful for a second time whilst giving evidence to the inquiry at Aldwych House, as part of phases five and six of the probe, which is looking at governance, redress and how the Post Office and others responded to the scandal, in central London on Wednesday May 22, 2024. (Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry/PA via AP)
Screen grab taken from the Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry of former Post Office boss Paula Vennells becoming tearful for a second time whilst giving evidence to the inquiry at Aldwych House, as part of phases five and six of the probe, which is looking at governance, redress and how the Post Office and others responded to the scandal, in central London on Wednesday May 22, 2024. (Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry/PA via AP)
Former Post Office boss Paula Vennells arrives to give evidence to the Post Office Horizon IT inquiry at Aldwych House in central London, Wednesday May 22, 2024. (Yui Mok/PA via AP)
LOS ANGELES (AP) — Some of Hollywood's brightest stars headlined a fundraiser for President Joe Biden that took in a record $30 million-plus for a Democratic candidate, according to his campaign, in hopes of energizing would-be supporters for a White House contest they said may rank among the most consequential in U.S. history.
George Clooney, Julia Roberts and Barbra Streisand were among those who took the stage at the 7,100-seat Peacock Theater in Los Angeles on Saturday night. Late-night host Jimmy Kimmel interviewed Biden and former President Barack Obama, who both stressed the need to defeat former President Donald Trump in a race that's expected to be exceedingly close.
During more than half an hour of discussion, Kimmel asked if the country was suffering from amnesia about the presumptive Republican nominee, to which Biden responded, “all we gotta do is remember what it was like" when Trump was in the White House.
Luminaries from the entertainment world have increasingly lined up to help Biden’s campaign, and just how important the event was to his reelection bid could be seen in Biden's decision to fly through the night across nine time zones, from the G7 summit in southern Italy to Southern California, to attend.
He also missed a summit in Switzerland about ways to end Russia's war in Ukraine, instead dispatching Vice President Kamala Harris who made a whirlwind trip of her own to represent the United States there, a stark reminder of the delicate balance between geopolitics and Biden's bid to win a second term.
Further laying bare the political implications were police in riot gear outside the theater. A group of protesters angry about the Biden's administration’s handling of Israel’s war against Hamas in Gaza demonstrated nearby.
The fundraiser included singing by Jack Black and Sheryl Lee Ralph, and actors Kathryn Hahn and Jason Bateman introduced Kimmel, who himself introduced Biden and Obama. The comedian deadpanned, “I was told I was getting introduced by Batman, not Bateman.”
But he quickly pivoted to far more serious topics, saying that “so much is at stake in this election” and listing women’s rights, health care and noting that “even the ballot is on the ballot” in a reference to the Biden administration's calls to expand voting rights.
Kimmel asked the president what he was most proud of accomplishing, and Biden said he thought the administration’s approach to the economy “is working.”
“We have the strongest economy in the world today,” Biden said, adding “we try to give ordinary people an even chance.”
Trump spent Saturday campaigning in Detroit and criticized Biden's handling of the economy and inflation. The president was fundraising "with out-of-touch elitist Hollywood celebrities,” Trump campaign spokeswoman Karoline Leavitt said.
But Biden told the crowd in California that “we passed every major piece of legislation we attempted to get done." And Obama expressed admiration for sweeping legislation on health care, public works, the environment, technology manufacturing, gun safety and other major initiatives that the administration of his former vice president has overseen.
“What we’re seeing now is a byproduct of in 2016. There were a whole bunch of folks who, for whatever reason, sat out," said Obama, who, like Biden wore a dark suit and a white shirt open at the collar.
Obama, speaking about the Supreme Court, added that "hopefully we have learned our lesson, because these elections matter in very concrete ways.”
Trump nominated three justices who helped overturn Roe v. Wade, the landmark decision guaranteeing a constitutional right to an abortion. The audience expressed its displeasure at the mention of Roe, to which Obama responded, “don't hiss, vote.” That was a play on his common refrain prioritizing voting over booing.
Biden said the person elected president in November could get the chance to nominate two new justices, though a second Biden term probably wouldn't drastically overhaul a court given its current 6-3 conservative majority.
He also suggested if Trump wins back the White House, “one of the scariest parts" was the Supreme Court and how the high court has "never been this far out of step.”
Biden also referenced reports that an upside-down flag, a symbol associated with Trump’s false claims of election fraud, was flown outside the home of Supreme Court Justice Samuel Alito in January 2021. He worried Saturday that, if Trump is reelected, “He’s going to appoint two more who fly their flags upside down.”
Kimmel offered his special brand of humor throughout the night. At one point he asked how can a president get back at a talk-show host who makes fun of him on TV every night.
“Ever hear of Delta Force?” Biden responded, referring to the Army special operations unit.
Earlier in the program, Kimmel noted Biden's campaign promise to restore the soul of America and said “lately it seems we might need an exorcism.” Then he asked Biden, “Is that why you visited the pope?” Biden and Pope Francis met in Italy on Friday.
The amount raised outpaced the then-record $26 million from Biden's fundraiser in March at Radio City Music Hall in New York that featured late-night host Stephen Colbert interviewing Biden, Obama and former President Bill Clinton.
Biden held an early lead in the campaign money race against Trump, but the former president has gained ground since he formally locked up the Republican nomination.
Trump outpaced Biden's New York event by raking in $50.5 million at an April gathering of major donors at the Florida home of billionaire investor John Paulson. The former president’s campaign and the Republican National Committee announced they raised a whopping $141 million in May, padded by tens of millions of dollars in contributions that flowed in after Trump's guilty verdict in his criminal hush money trial.
That post-conviction bump came after Trump and the Republican Party announced collecting $76 million in April, far exceeding Biden and the Democrats’ $51 million for the month.
Weissert reported from Washington.
President Joe Biden speaks during a campaign event with former President Barack Obama moderated by Jimmy Kimmel at the Peacock Theater, Saturday, June 15, 2024, in Los Angeles. (AP Photo/Alex Brandon)
President Joe Biden speaks during a campaign event with former President Barack Obama moderated by Jimmy Kimmel at the Peacock Theater, Saturday, June 15, 2024, in Los Angeles. (AP Photo/Alex Brandon)
President Joe Biden arrives for a campaign event with former President Barack Obama moderated by Jimmy Kimmel at the Peacock Theater, Saturday, June 15, 2024, in Los Angeles. (AP Photo/Alex Brandon)
President Joe Biden speaks during a campaign event with former President Barack Obama moderated by Jimmy Kimmel, right, at the Peacock Theater, Saturday, June 15, 2024, in Los Angeles. (AP Photo/Alex Brandon)
President Joe Biden arrives for a campaign event with former President Barack Obama moderated by Jimmy Kimmel at the Peacock Theater, Saturday, June 15, 2024, in Los Angeles. (AP Photo/Alex Brandon)
President Joe Biden speaks during a campaign event with former President Barack Obama at the Peacock Theater, Saturday, June 15, 2024, in Los Angeles. (AP Photo/Alex Brandon)
Law enforcement officers respond to protesters near the campaign event with President Joe Biden outside the Peacock Theater, Saturday, June 15, 2024, in Los Angeles. (AP Photo/Alex Brandon)
Law enforcement officers carrying less-lethal-munitions, respond to protesters near the campaign event with President Joe Biden outside the Peacock Theater, Saturday, June 15, 2024, in Los Angeles. (AP Photo/Alex Brandon)
President Joe Biden, accompanied by daughter Ashley Biden, arrives on Air Force One, Saturday, June 15, 2024, in Los Angeles. Biden will attend a campaign event Saturday night. (AP Photo/Alex Brandon)
President Joe Biden waves as he arrives on Air Force One, Saturday, June 15, 2024, in Los Angeles. Biden will attend a campaign event Saturday night. (AP Photo/Alex Brandon)
President Joe Biden walks to his limousine as he arrives on Air Force One, Saturday, June 15, 2024, in Los Angeles. Biden will attend a campaign event Saturday night. (AP Photo/Alex Brandon)
FILE - Jimmy Kimmel appears at the 74th Primetime Emmy Awards in Los Angeles, Sept. 12, 2022. Celebrities are increasingly lending their star power to President Joe Biden, hoping to energize fans to vote for him in November 2024 or entice donors to open their checkbooks for his reelection campaign. (Photo by Richard Shotwell/Invision/AP, File)
FILE - Former President Barack Obama speaks in Athens, Greece, June 21, 2023. Celebrities including Obama are increasingly lending their star power to President Joe Biden, hoping to energize fans to vote for him in November 2024 or entice donors to open their checkbooks for his reelection campaign. (AP Photo/Petros Giannakouris, File)
FILE - Julia Roberts attends the premiere of Netflix's "Leave the World Behind," Dec. 4, 2023, in New York. Celebrities including Roberts are increasingly lending their star power to President Joe Biden, hoping to energize fans to vote for him in November 2024 or entice donors to open their checkbooks for his reelection campaign. (Photo by Evan Agostini/Invision/AP, File)
FILE - Director George Clooney attends a special screening of "The Boys in the Boat," Dec. 13, 2023, in New York. Celebrities including Clooney are increasingly lending their star power to President Joe Biden, hoping to energize fans to vote for him in November 2024 or entice donors to open their checkbooks for his reelection campaign. (Photo by Evan Agostini/Invision/AP, File)
President Joe Biden boards Air Force One at Brindisi International Airport, Friday, June 14, 2024, in Brindisi, Italy, with his granddaughter Maisy Biden. (AP Photo/Alex Brandon)
From left, Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, U.S. President Joe Biden and Argentina's President Javier Milei attend a working session on AI, Energy, Africa and Mideast, at the G7, Friday, June 14, 2024, in Borgo Egnazia, near Bari, southern Italy. (AP Photo/Alex Brandon)
President Joe Biden boards Air Force One at Brindisi International Airport, Friday, June 14, 2024, in Brindisi, Italy. (AP Photo/Alex Brandon)
