Cardinals wrap up pre-conclave meetings still uncertain about who should follow Pope Francis

VATICAN CITY (AP) — Cardinals wrapped up their pre-conclave meetings Tuesday, trying to identify a possible new pope who could follow Pope Francis and make the 2,000-year-old Catholic Church credible and relevant today, especially to young people.

Although they come from 70 different countries, the 133 cardinal electors seem fundamentally united in insisting that the question before them isn't so much whether the church gets its first Asian or African pontiff, or a conservative or progressive. Rather, they say the primary task facing them when the conclave opens Wednesday is to find a pope who can be both a pastor and a teacher, a bridge who can unite the church and preach peace.

“We need a superman!” said Cardinal William Seng Chye Goh, the 67-year-old archbishop of Singapore.

It is indeed a tall task, given the sexual abuse and financial scandals that have harmed the church’s reputation and the secularizing trends in many parts of the world that are turning people away from organized religion. Add to that the Holy See’s dire financial state and often dysfunctional bureaucracy, and the job of being pope in the 21st century seems almost impossible.

Francis named 108 of the 133 electors and selected cardinals in his image. But there is an element of uncertainty about the election since many of them didn't know one another before last week, meaning they haven't had much time to suss out who among them is best suited to lead the 1.4-billion-strong church.

The cardinals held their last day of pre-conclave meetings Tuesday morning, during which Francis' fisherman's ring and his official seal were destroyed in one of the final formal rites of the transition of his pontificate to the next.

The cardinals will begin trying to find the new pope Wednesday afternoon, when those “princes of the church” walk solemnly into the Sistine Chapel to the meditative chant of the “Litany of the Saints.” They’ll take their oaths of secrecy under the daunting vision of heaven and hell in Michelangelo’s “Last Judgment,” hear a meditation from a senior cardinal, and then most likely cast their first ballot.

Assuming no candidate secures the necessary two-thirds majority, or 89 votes, the cardinals will retire for the day and return on Thursday. They will have two ballots in the morning and then two in the afternoon, until a winner is found.

Asked what the priorities of the cardinal electors were, Goh told reporters this week that the No. 1 issue was that the new pope must be able to spread the Catholic faith and “make the church relevant in today’s time. How to reach out to young people, how to show a face of love, joy and hope.”

But beyond that, there are some real-world geopolitical concerns to take into consideration. The Catholic Church is growing in Africa and Asia, both in numbers of baptized faithful and vocations to the priesthood and women’s religious orders. It is shrinking in traditionally Catholic bastions of Europe, with empty churches and the faithful formally leaving the church in places like Germany, many citing the abuse scandals.

“Asia is ripe for evangelization and the harvest of vocations,” said the Rev. Robert Reyes, who studied in the seminary with Cardinal Luis Antonio Tagle, the Filipino prelate considered a contender to be the first Asian pope.

But should the pope necessarily reflect the new face of the Catholic Church, and inspire the faithful especially in the parts of the world where the momentum of growth is already underway? Does it even matter?

Pope Francis was the first Latin American pope, and the region still counts the majority of the world's Catholics.

Indian Cardinal Oswald Gracias, the retired archbishop of Mumbai, said the church needs to become more Asian, culturally and spiritually.

The “center of gravity of the world is shifting toward Asia,” he said. “The Asian church has much to give to the world.”

At 80, Gracias won’t be participating in the conclave, but India has four cardinal-electors, and overall Asia counts 23, making it the second-biggest voting bloc after Europe, which has 53 (or likely 52, given that one is not expected to participate for health reasons).

One of the big geopolitical issues facing the cardinals is China and the plight of the estimated 12 million Chinese Catholics there.

Under Francis, the Vatican in 2018 inked a controversial agreement with Beijing governing the appointment of bishops, which many conservatives decried as a sellout of the underground Chinese Catholics who had remained loyal to Rome during decades of communist persecution. The Vatican has defended the accord as the best deal it could get, but it remains to be seen if Francis' successor will keep the policy.

According to Vatican statistics, Catholics represent 3.3% of the population in Asia, but their numbers are growing, especially in terms of seminarians, as they are in Africa, where Catholics represent about 20% of the population.

Cardinal Fridolin Ambongo Besungu, the archbishop of Kinshasa, Congo, said he is in Rome to elect a pope for all the world's Catholics.

“I am not here for the Congo, I am not here for Africa, I am here for the universal church. That is our concern, the universal church,” he told reporters. “When we are done, I will return to Kinshasa and I will put back on my archbishop of Kinshasa hat and the struggle continues.”

Cardinal Jean-Paul Vesco, the chatty French-born archbishop of Algiers, Algeria, lamented last week that there hadn't been enough time for the cardinals to get to know one another, since many of them had never met before and hail from 70 countries in the most geographically diverse conclave in history.

“Every day, I say to myself, ‘Ah! Oh my God! There we have it!’” he said.

For the cardinals, there is also the belief that they are guided by the Holy Spirit.

There is a famous quote attributed to then-Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger in 1997, in comments to a Bavarian television station. The future Pope Benedict XVI said the Holy Spirit acted like a good educator in a conclave, allowing cardinals to freely choose a pope without dictating the precise candidate.

“Probably the only assurance he offers is that the thing cannot be totally ruined,” Ratzinger reportedly said. “There are too many contrary instances of popes the Holy Spirit would obviously not have picked.”

Associated Press correspondent Jim Gomez in Manila, Philippines, and Silvia Stellacci, Trisha Thomas and Giovanna Dell'Orto in Rome contributed.

Associated Press religion coverage receives support through the AP’s collaboration with The Conversation US, with funding from Lilly Endowment Inc. The AP is solely responsible for this content.

A reproduction of Michelangelo's "The Creation of Adam" is painted in a parking garage in Rome, Tuesday, May 6, 2025. (AP Photo/Bernat Armangue)

People walk near the St. Peter's Basilica, background, in Rome, on Tuesday, May 6, 2025, the day before of the upcoming conclave starting on May 7, to elect the 267th Roman pontiff. (AP Photo/Francisco Seco)

Cardinal Pierbattista Pizzaballa arrives in the New Hall of the Synod at the Vatican, Tuesday, May 6, 2025, the last time before the start of the conclave starting in the afternoon of Wenesday, May 7, when they will elect the successor of Pope Francis. (AP Photo/Gregorio Borgia)

In this image made available on Tuesday, May 6, 2025 by Vatican Media, Vatican employees sign the oath of secrecy for all those assigned to the conclave during a ceremony in the Pauline Chapel at the Vatican, Monday, May 5, 2025. (Vatican Media via AP)

In this image made available on Tuesday, May 6, 2025 by Vatican Media, Vatican Master of Ceremonies Archbishop Diego Giovanni Ravelli takes the oath of secrecy for all those assigned to the conclave during a ceremony in the Pauline Chapel at the Vatican, Monday, May 5, 2025. (Vatican Media via AP)

Clouds pass over the St. Peter's Basilica at the Vatican, Tuesday, May 6, 2025. (AP Photo/Gregorio Borgia)

Clouds pass over the St. Peter Basilica at the Vatican, Tuesday, May 6, 2025. (AP Photo/Gregorio Borgia)

Cardinals Ruben Salazar Gomez, left is flanked by Cardinal Luis José Rueda Aparicio as they arrive in the New Hall of the Synod at the Vatican, Tuesday, May 6, 2025, the last time before the start of the conclave starting in the afternoon of Wenesday, May 7, when they will elect the successor of Pope Francis. (AP Photo/Gregorio Borgia)

A Vatican employee annulls the papal seal on the pope's seal, at the Vatican, Tuesday, May 6, 2025. (Vatican Media via AP)

A Vatican employee annulls the papal seal on the pope's fisherman's ring, at the Vatican, Tuesday, May 6, 2025. (Vatican Media via AP)

Cardinal Fridolin Ambongo Besungu arrives to celebrate Mass at his titular church, San Gabriele Arcangelo all'Acqua Traversa three days before the conclave to elect the 267th pope of the Roman Catholic Church, in Rome, Sunday, May 4, 2025. (AP Photo/Andrew Medichini)

In the foreground center to right: Cardinal Mauro Gambetti, Cardinal Dean Giovanni Battista Re, and Cardinal Lazarus You Heung-sik attend a rosary prayer and a candlelight procession with the image of Mater Ecclesiae in St. Peter's Square at the Vatican, Saturday, May 3, 2025. (AP Photo/Bernat Armangue)

FILE - Pope Francis meets a group of faithful from China at the end of his weekly general audience in St. Peter's Square at the Vatican on April 18, 2018. (AP Photo/Gregorio Borgia, File)

FILE - Cardinal Luis Antonio Tagle, center, takes part in the procession carrying the body of Pope Francis to St. Peter's Basilica at the Vatican, Wednesday, April 23, 2025, where he will lie in state for three days. (AP Photo/Alessandra Tarantino, File)

FILE - Cardinals leave at the end of a Mass on the eighth of nine days of mourning for Pope Francis, in St. Peter's Basilica, at the Vatican, Saturday, May 3, 2025. (AP Photo/Alessandra Tarantino, File)

NEW YORK (AP) — Reviving a campaign pledge, President Donald Trump wants a one-year, 10% cap on credit card interest rates, a move that could save Americans tens of billions of dollars but drew immediate opposition from an industry that has been in his corner.

Trump was not clear in his social media post Friday night whether a cap might take effect through executive action or legislation, though one Republican senator said he had spoken with the president and would work on a bill with his “full support.” Trump said he hoped it would be in place Jan. 20, one year after he took office.

Strong opposition is certain from Wall Street in addition to the credit card companies, which donated heavily to his 2024 campaign and have supported Trump's second-term agenda. Banks are making the argument that such a plan would most hurt poor people, at a time of economic concern, by curtailing or eliminating credit lines, driving them to high-cost alternatives like payday loans or pawnshops.

“We will no longer let the American Public be ripped off by Credit Card Companies that are charging Interest Rates of 20 to 30%,” Trump wrote on his Truth Social platform.

Researchers who studied Trump’s campaign pledge after it was first announced found that Americans would save roughly $100 billion in interest a year if credit card rates were capped at 10%. The same researchers found that while the credit card industry would take a major hit, it would still be profitable, although credit card rewards and other perks might be scaled back.

About 195 million people in the United States had credit cards in 2024 and were assessed $160 billion in interest charges, the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau says. Americans are now carrying more credit card debt than ever, to the tune of about $1.23 trillion, according to figures from the New York Federal Reserve for the third quarter last year.

Further, Americans are paying, on average, between 19.65% and 21.5% in interest on credit cards according to the Federal Reserve and other industry tracking sources. That has come down in the past year as the central bank lowered benchmark rates, but is near the highs since federal regulators started tracking credit card rates in the mid-1990s. That’s significantly higher than a decade ago, when the average credit card interest rate was roughly 12%.

The Republican administration has proved particularly friendly until now to the credit card industry.

Capital One got little resistance from the White House when it finalized its purchase and merger with Discover Financial in early 2025, a deal that created the nation’s largest credit card company. The Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, which is largely tasked with going after credit card companies for alleged wrongdoing, has been largely nonfunctional since Trump took office.

In a joint statement, the banking industry was opposed to Trump's proposal.

“If enacted, this cap would only drive consumers toward less regulated, more costly alternatives," the American Bankers Association and allied groups said.

Bank lobbyists have long argued that lowering interest rates on their credit card products would require the banks to lend less to high-risk borrowers. When Congress enacted a cap on the fee that stores pay large banks when customers use a debit card, banks responded by removing all rewards and perks from those cards. Debit card rewards only recently have trickled back into consumers' hands. For example, United Airlines now has a debit card that gives miles with purchases.

The U.S. already places interest rate caps on some financial products and for some demographics. The Military Lending Act makes it illegal to charge active-duty service members more than 36% for any financial product. The national regulator for credit unions has capped interest rates on credit union credit cards at 18%.

Credit card companies earn three streams of revenue from their products: fees charged to merchants, fees charged to customers and the interest charged on balances. The argument from some researchers and left-leaning policymakers is that the banks earn enough revenue from merchants to keep them profitable if interest rates were capped.

"A 10% credit card interest cap would save Americans $100 billion a year without causing massive account closures, as banks claim. That’s because the few large banks that dominate the credit card market are making absolutely massive profits on customers at all income levels," said Brian Shearer, director of competition and regulatory policy at the Vanderbilt Policy Accelerator, who wrote the research on the industry's impact of Trump's proposal last year.

There are some historic examples that interest rate caps do cut off the less creditworthy to financial products because banks are not able to price risk correctly. Arkansas has a strictly enforced interest rate cap of 17% and evidence points to the poor and less creditworthy being cut out of consumer credit markets in the state. Shearer's research showed that an interest rate cap of 10% would likely result in banks lending less to those with credit scores below 600.

The White House did not respond to questions about how the president seeks to cap the rate or whether he has spoken with credit card companies about the idea.

Sen. Roger Marshall, R-Kan., who said he talked with Trump on Friday night, said the effort is meant to “lower costs for American families and to reign in greedy credit card companies who have been ripping off hardworking Americans for too long."

Legislation in both the House and the Senate would do what Trump is seeking.

Sens. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., and Josh Hawley, R-Mo., released a plan in February that would immediately cap interest rates at 10% for five years, hoping to use Trump’s campaign promise to build momentum for their measure.

Hours before Trump's post, Sanders said that the president, rather than working to cap interest rates, had taken steps to deregulate big banks that allowed them to charge much higher credit card fees.

Reps. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, D-N.Y., and Anna Paulina Luna, R-Fla., have proposed similar legislation. Ocasio-Cortez is a frequent political target of Trump, while Luna is a close ally of the president.

Seung Min Kim reported from West Palm Beach, Fla.

President Donald Trump arrives on Air Force One at Palm Beach International Airport, Friday, Jan. 9, 2025, in West Palm Beach, Fla. (AP Photo/Julia Demaree Nikhinson)

FILE - Visa and Mastercard credit cards are shown in Buffalo Grove, Ill., Feb. 8, 2024. (AP Photo/Nam Y. Huh, File)