Taylor Swift's chat with the Kelces on 'New Heights' marks a milestone moment for podcasts

Since nothing Taylor Swift ever does is small, her two-hour conversation with boyfriend Travis Kelce and his brother Jason Kelce on their “New Heights” podcast is a watershed moment for a media format that has already outlived the device it was named for.

By Thursday afternoon, Wednesday night's talk had already been seen more than 11.7 million times on YouTube. But that's only a fraction of its circulation — clips distributed on Instagram, TikTok, X and elsewhere have received more than 400 million views, and the episode was also available for streaming on audio platforms.

Swift, who infrequently gives interviews to journalists, revealed key information about her upcoming album, “The Life of a Showgirl,” and talked about her relationships with Travis Kelce and her family, and her joy of gaining full control of her past work — a yearslong quest.

It was a revelation for fans with whom she's primarily communicated through her music and social media Easter eggs, a treasure hunt of clues about what she's doing professionally.

“We have not heard Taylor speak in like a long-form interview like that in about five years,” Alex Antonides, a superfan from Dallas, told The Associated Press. “She’s never been in that comfortable of a situation, either. It’s always been like more professional, like a professional interviewer asking her questions. And then this is like with her boyfriend and his brother. So that was ... an environment we’ve truly never seen her in before.”

Swift cemented a trend that's been seen in recent years among entertainers, sports figures and politicians who seek to deliver particular messages. A visit to friendly faces for a long-form conversation beats questions from nosy, prying journalists. In this case, Swift and Travis Kelce locked arms and cooed at each other between admiring queries. “My boyfriend says,” Swift said in asides when Kelce laid things on too thick.

“The Kelce brothers have become the Barbara Walters of their generation,” said Nick Cicero, founder of Mondo Metrics, which studies the podcast industry.

Fans ate it up. “I think it's really nice and refreshing, especially for a woman whose primary fan base is young women, to see somebody that is so celebratory of their partner and also not self-deprecating in a bad way, but also really admires what they do, and they don't try to minimize that,” one fan, Britton Copeland, who goes by Britton Rae on TikTok, said in a Zoom interview.

Swift interpreters immediately began online discussions about What It All Means. One fan discussed theories about the still-unheard song, “The Fate of Ophelia,” listed as the new album's first cut. Others pointed out that the album release date of Oct. 3 coincided with National Plaid Day — apparently a Swift obsession — and National Boyfriend's Day.

Such Easter eggs are likely to bring listeners back to the “New Heights” interview again and again, meaning it could eventually stand as the most listened-to podcast episode on YouTube ever. “It's got a chance,” Cicero said.

Podcasts emerged in the 2000s as an audio-only programming format tied to Apple's now-defunct iPod. The New Oxford American Dictionary called “podcast” its word of the year in 2005, even as many in the industry sought an alternative name almost as soon as it was coined.

The well-regarded “Serial” podcasts helped bring the format into the mainstream a decade ago. Particularly since the pandemic, and with the explosive growth of YouTube and personalities like Joe Rogan, video podcasts have become far more popular. Like most interview podcasts, “New Heights” can also be enjoyed in an audio format — and it's background noise even for many who air it on YouTube — but being able to see Swift and the Kelces interact has its benefits.

Rogan's interview with President Donald Trump was a key moment in the 2024 presidential campaign, and has been seen 59 million times on YouTube in nine months. Certainly Swifties — and possibly Trump himself — will be eager to see if the “New Heights” interview exceeds that number. Swift is among the celebrities who has drawn the president's ire.

It has further to go to be a record-setter, though. The most-watched podcast episode ever on YouTube, and likely the most-consumed podcast ever, is Abdulrahman Abu Maleh's interview with relationship coach Yasser Hazimi for “Secrets to Thriving Relationships” from the Saudi Arabian company Thmanyah. It has racked up 144 million views in two years.

Swift's and the Kelces' teams were was particularly skillful in creating a huge demand for the interview with how its spread clips across various social media platforms, said Tom Webster, founder of Sounds Profitable, a firm that analyzes the podcast industry. By Thursday morning, Instagram highlights alone from the interview were viewed more than 350 million times, Cicero said.

Associated Press journalist Alicia Rancilio contributed to this report from Detroit.

David Bauder writes about the intersection of media and entertainment for the AP. Follow him at http://x.com/dbauder and https://bsky.app/profile/dbauder.bsky.social.

FILE - Donna Kelce stands with her son Kansas City Chiefs tight end Travis Kelce and Taylor Swift after the AFC Championship NFL football game against the Buffalo Bills, Jan. 26, 2025, in Kansas City, Mo. (AP Photo/Ashley Landis, File)

CAPE CANAVERAL, Fla. (AP) — An ailing astronaut returned to Earth with three others on Thursday, ending their space station mission more than a month early in NASA’s first medical evacuation.

SpaceX guided the capsule to a middle-of-the-night splashdown in the Pacific near San Diego, less than 11 hours after the astronauts exited the International Space Station.

“It’s so good to be home,” said NASA astronaut Zena Cardman, the capsule commander.

It was an unexpected finish to a mission that began in August and left the orbiting lab with only one American and two Russians on board. NASA and SpaceX said they would try to move up the launch of a fresh crew of four; liftoff is currently targeted for mid-February.

Cardman and NASA’s Mike Fincke were joined on the return by Japan’s Kimiya Yui and Russia’s Oleg Platonov. Officials have refused to identify the astronaut who had the health problem or explain what happened, citing medical privacy.

While the astronaut was stable in orbit, NASA wanted them back on Earth as soon as possible to receive proper care and diagnostic testing. The entry and splashdown required no special changes or accommodations, officials said, and the recovery ship had its usual allotment of medical experts on board. It was not immediately known when the astronauts would fly from California to their home base in Houston. Platonov’s return to Moscow was also unclear.

NASA stressed repeatedly over the past week that this was not an emergency. The astronaut fell sick or was injured on Jan. 7, prompting NASA to call off the next day’s spacewalk by Cardman and Fincke, and ultimately resulting in the early return. It was the first time NASA cut short a spaceflight for medical reasons. The Russians had done so decades ago.

The space station has gotten by with three astronauts before, sometimes even with just two. NASA said it will be unable to perform a spacewalk, even for an emergency, until the arrival of the next crew, which has two Americans, one French and one Russian astronaut.

The Associated Press Health and Science Department receives support from the Howard Hughes Medical Institute’s Department of Science Education and the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation. The AP is solely responsible for all content.

This screengrab from video provided by NASA TV shows the SpaceX Dragon departing from the International Space Station shortly after undocking with four NASA Crew-11 members inside on Wednesday, Jan. 14, 2026. (NASA via AP)

This photo provided by NASA shows clockwise from bottom left are, NASA astronaut Mike Fincke, Roscosmos cosmonaut Oleg Platonov, NASA astronaut Zena Cardman, and JAXA (Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency) astronaut Kimiya Yui gathering for a crew portrait wearing their Dragon pressure suits during a suit verification check inside the International Space Station’s Kibo laboratory module, Wednesday, Jan. 14, 2026. (NASA via AP)

This screengrab from video provided by NASA shows recovery vessels approaching the NASA's SpaceX Crew-11 capsule to evacuate one of the crew members after they re-entered the earth in a middle-of-the-night splashdown near San Diego, Calif., Thursday, Jan. 15, 2026. (NASA via AP)

This screengrab from video provided by NASA shows the NASA's SpaceX Crew-11 members re entering the earth in a middle-of-the-night splashdown near San Diego, Calif., Thursday, Jan. 15, 2026. (NASA via AP)

This screengrab from video provided by NASA shows the NASA's SpaceX Crew-11 members re entering the earth in a middle-of-the-night splashdown near San Diego, Calif., Thursday, Jan. 15, 2026. (NASA via AP)